Episode 13
13 | Everyone loves a Dynamic Cult Leader! | A Little Bit Bothered
This Halloween, the ladies of A Little Bit Bothered have embraced all things spooky and creepy. For the final episode, join the ladies as this episode takes a dark twist with a true crime story close to Kelsie’s hometown: the chilling rise and brutal acts of Michael Ryan’s cult. The hosts dive into how manipulation and fear turned ordinary people toward horrific violence, unraveling how cults can warp minds and shatter families.
**Trigger Warning** Violent acts are discussed. Please skip this episode if that's not your cup of tea.
Welcome to the girls group chat where no topics are off limits and it's like hanging out with your friends.
Don't forget to subscribe & leave us a review! And, as always, stay a little bit bothered... in the best way!
Have a bothersome story of your own? E-mail them to us at alittlebitbotheredpod@gmail.com
About the podcast: Join the feisty crew of "A Little Bit Bothered" as they share hilarious stories, relatable rants, and chaotic conversations about life's absurdities.
Meet the hosts, Nicole, Kelsie, Ashley, & Monica.
Internet friends that became real life besties through the group chat. We know how special that bond is between girlfriends and how wild that group chat can be - from the hilarious to the the petty and all things in between! We’re here to chat about it and share it with you!
Episodes are released every Thursday. Available wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Transcript
He took a razor blade and pliers and peeled strips of skin off of his body.
Nicole (:He did it.
we're losing Monica. We're losing Monica. This is where Monica's going to tap out. Sorry, Monica.
Kelsie (:This is about the part where I thought we were gonna lose Monica.
Ashley (:my god.
Monica (:Happy Halloween and welcome to a spine chilling episode of A Little Bit Bothered. I'm Monica and today we're diving into something far scarier than any ghost story.
Ashley (:that's right. I'm Ashley and trust us, the real monsters aren't lurking in haunted houses. They're walking among us.
Nicole (:I'm Nicole and today's story will make you think twice of who you trust. We're talking true crime, cults, and the chilling reality behind them.
Monica (:This is the episode.
Kelsie (:And I'm Kelsey, so grab a blanket, turn the lights low, and join us as we explore the terrifying world of those who make horror all too real.
Ashley (:Happy Halloween!
Kelsie (:Happy Halloween!
Nicole (:Happy Halloween or-
Ashley (:Do your little skeleton song, Nicole. I forgot how goes.
Kelsie (:I was just about to say spooky scary skeletons.
Nicole (:No, because the last time I did that it was it scared me in post spooky scary skeletons
Ashley (:Spooky, scary skeleton. that's what I was gonna say. I was thinking I had a funny story to tell our listeners that was scary because the other day at work, I don't know what I saw, but all I could think was that video message you sent that one day you were editing, and now I have to tell them. They have to know about this. I can't, I...
Nicole (:When I scared myself!
my god, we have to save it. Yeah, tell it because, tell it, tell it, because it was really funny. It was horrifying to me.
Monica (:Please, please, please tell it.
Ashley (:I'm telling, no, I'm telling it. Yeah, we're gonna tell it. We have to tell it. Nicole's editing are one of our spookier episodes. Like one of the scary, okay, it was the cabin episode. We had all these weird echoes. We had all these sound problems. She's editing it alone.
Nicole (:It was the cabin episode.
We had asked, wait, we had also, we thought we had a ghost in the cabin and we asked if we have a ghost in the cabin, please make an appearance on this podcast and.
Monica (:We thought we had a ghost in the cabin.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Yeah, so Nicole's editing.
Monica (:See, this is the shit that Ashley and I are talking about where like you guys literally invite this crap in.
Ashley (:Yeah, we're like, stop, no, stop. She's editing back in her house. We're all separate now. I am like, I can't tell you. The fear in this bitch's face. She sends a video message to us in the group chat. She's crying. She is damn near crying. And she's like.
Nicole (:That was crying. Actual cry. Tears.
Ashley (:I think I caught something. I'm so scared. I can't rewind. I heard something. Like if I caught something right now in this podcast, like, my God, she's in fucking sheer panic. Like she was so stressed. Just like as scared as you've ever seen anyone, that's how scared she was. The very next video message is her.
Nicole (:don't even want to listen!
Yeah, was, I was, I was in shambles.
which was two minutes later.
Ashley (:is her and she's like, ha, it was just me. I was whispering in my mic, like a fucking psycho. It was literally so hot and cold. One message crying, the scaredest she's ever been. The next message she's like, it was me. I'm the spirit.
Nicole (:laughing.
Kelsie (:Ha ha ha.
Ashley (:Literally, it was so dramatic and hilarious. I showed my husband immediately after because I was like, look at this bitch. Okay, that I just had to get that off my chest. Let's do it. Let's talk about three things that bothered us this week. Somebody else go first.
Nicole (:favorite story.
My god, that was so funny. Okay. All right. Can we get to the actual?
Who wants to go first? I'll go first. I got my period. My face is breaking out. My face is breaking out because I got my period but also because I changed my face wash. What else is bothering me? I'm distraught over another book. So what else is fucking new? So I'm not gonna go into that because we talked about it enough, but I'm distraught.
Ashley (:EW EW
Monica (:Mmm.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm. Mm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:fine that's what's bothering me as I am as I should be correct okay and who else all valid I'm just angry this week
Monica (:Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley (:As you should be.
Kelsie (:.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm. Valid. All valid. Monica, what are you bothered by?
Monica (:Yeah, yeah. Lack of traffic lights at Costco, both in and outside the store. They just need to happen. They just need to be there, and I'm annoyed that they're not there. Sugar, just in general, because I love it, and it hates me, and it's the sugary season, so just sugar, sugar. Sugar's on the list. Yeah, and then the last one is...
Ashley (:You
Nicole (:Solid.
Solid, also valid.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:when you're eating something like a taco and it's got like a delicious sauce in it and it's just like dripping down your hands and that feeling, I hate it. That's on the list this week.
Ashley (:I hate that too.
Nicole (:I don't like that feeling. I got those cuffs, those like face wash cuffs. Yeah, because I hate when, I mean, I guess you could use, dual purpose, dual purpose, dual, dual purpose, face wash and taco Tuesday. Gross.
Ashley (:I was just gonna ask, does anyone have those? Yeah.
Monica (:Taco Tuesday.
Ashley (:You need taco cuffs.
Monica (:at that, Taco Tuesday little link.
Ashley (:Taco Cuffs.
Monica (:Yeah, but that was that was one that I realized last night that I really freaking hate when we were at dinner and I was like trying to eat this like duck bun thing at the sushi restaurant and so delicious and the sauce just kept going down my hand and I hated it.
Nicole (:No. Hard no. Be aggressive.
Ashley (:Yeah, yeah, that's aggressive.
Monica (:Yeah. Yeah. Hard. No. All right. Who's up?
Ashley (:Okay, wait, I don't know if I have three things I'm bothered by but I fly tomorrow I'm going to a conference for work and so I have to fly to San Antonio and I'm very bothered by flying which you guys already know I don't know if our listeners know that but I'm not excited about it. I think it's like two hours and ten minutes
Monica (:Which by the way...
Nicole (:You're coming to my neck of the woods.
Monica (:I don't think I shared this with you and Kelsey and Nicole. Ashley flying is really funny actually because the moment that we pull out of the gate, she's on her phone. I'm not like, let me just, I'm gonna casually be on my phone. She's frantically playing games from take off to landing.
Ashley (:You
Nicole (:Poor thing.
Ashley (:Yeah, I have to be distracted. I have to.
Nicole (:Her Zuma!
Monica (:And I'm like, yeah, I'm like you good. And she's like, I just, need to do something with my hands. She's just like.
Ashley (:I do. I have to have music really loud. Actually, if you're sitting next to me, don't even talk to me. I just need music really loud, but then I can't just have music or I can't just listen to a book. I gotta be doing something, hence the games. So I'll be doing that tomorrow. Yeah, until we land.
Kelsie (:you
Monica (:you
Nicole (:That's so funny.
Monica (:It's like a frantic like focus though like gotta play the games Yeah, literally we land she's like, okay, she puts it away and she's totally it's like a complete switch change
Ashley (:D-D-D-D-
Yes, so pray for me this week.
Nicole (:I be, I will be, because I know you hate it, but that's funny.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Monica (:You
Ashley (:Just the one, it's a big one. It's a doozy, so. Yeah, no, that's it, that's all. I can't focus on anything else.
Monica (:Just the one. Just the one. It's a big one. It covers all three. It covers all three.
Kelsie (:just the one. okay. Okay. I okay. Okay. Three things I'm bothered by. Fucking politics ready to be done with this election season. It's putting me in a it's putting me in a bad mood. Pimples. I am breaking. I've never broken out so much in my life as I have the past month. Third, what was my third? I just I'm in the
Nicole (:Just the one, it's just a big one, it's just a big one.
you
Ashley (:yes yes yes.
Monica (:Yes, I'm annoyed by it all. Yes.
Nicole (:Ooh, let's not open that can of worms.
Monica (:Yeah.
Kelsie (:currently in a book series that is literally destroying my heart and soul and making me like sob in the middle of night. So I love it, but I'm also bothered by it, you I know. When she said hers, I was like, I'm about to copy them, but we live the same life basically, so.
Ashley (:Mmm.
Nicole (:Great. Same.
Ashley (:You and Nicole had two out of the same three.
Nicole (:Yeah, we did. Breakouts and book series.
Ashley (:Copycat.
Nicole (:We do actually live the same life. It's very disturbing. I'm actually surprised we're not in the same book series right now, because normally we are, but we both kind of went rogue and chose different ones. yeah, so it's fine. It's fine. We'll catch up with each other. It's OK.
Kelsie (:Yeah.
Monica (:Actually, I don't know that that has happened once yet. Like not all four of us. We keep saying that and then you guys go rogue and catch up on books faster than Ashley. can get to you.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm. We're all gonna be together on Akatar though in a few, like, yeah, on number two.
Monica (:Number two.
Nicole (:Yeah, well, well, Kelsey and I did Light Lark together. So we were distraught by Light Lark together. And all the stuff that I have read, Kelsey has read. Yeah, yeah. But we're usually on the same plane.
Kelsie (:until we finish it in like a day.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm, we did.
Monica (:Okay, but that might be the only exception and that's only half the group.
Yeah.
Ashley (:Me and Monica are only one chapter apart in Akitar, so we're doing pretty good.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Yes. And I can't wait. I can't wait for you guys to get through this because as soon as I'm done with my current
Obsession I want to call it because like I I'm so distraught and I'm so immersed in this It's fourth-wing for the listeners. I wasn't gonna say it but everyone absolutely should read it and I was I was like not I Had it saved like on my to be read list for a while and I was like whatever dragons
Ashley (:It's fourth wing for the listeners. It's fourth wing and everyone should read it. Set it.
Nicole (:I am kicking myself in the ass. I should have read it like two months ago, but you know, it's really good. It's really, really good. And I'm distraught and I'm stressed and I don't actually want to be in this world. I'd rather be in that world, but it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. I just have to carry on. It's fine. But I'm excited for when you guys are done because I'll be done with my book and then I'll go into a different world and then it'll be good.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:You're gonna have such a hangover though waiting for the next book.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Nicole (:Well, I'm hoping that's why I was asking, I asked in the chat the other day if we were going to be done with the entire Akitar series by the time that the third fourth wing book comes out. This way I don't have a book hangover. Like I'll need a distraction. I need to be distracted for the next two months. So I'm not. Yeah.
Ashley (:I know.
Monica (:Fair enough, fair enough.
Ashley (:Yeah.
That's what me and Nicole decided. We're all gonna finish Akatar before the third fourth wing book comes out. And then all of us will read the first two, me and Nicole again, and you guys for the first time. Then we'll all read the third one together. It'll be great.
Monica (:Yeah.
Nicole (:Again, yes.
Monica (:Okay.
Nicole (:Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Kelsie (:I will have already read Fourth Wing by then, I promise you I have way too much free time to listen to books.
Nicole (:Okay, good. Okay, Fabulous. great. Okay.
Monica (:Yeah, we are rapidly going through books right now. Yes.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Nicole (:Thank you Kindle and Audible still waiting on that sponsorship. Okay, anyway, back to our spooky episode. Spooky, scary skeletons. Okay, sorry.
Monica (:real. All right. Well, yeah, back to our spooky because Halloween week.
Ashley (:Yeah, for real. Okay, but back to our spooky, back to Halloween, back to Halloween.
Kelsie (:Yep.
Monica (:You
Kelsie (:My trial.
Ashley (:Do any of you guys have a favorite Halloween costume like that you've worn like your favorite Halloween costume you've ever worn
Monica (:that we've worn.
Kelsie (:My mom made me a costume like I guess maybe it was just like a last minute thing but you know those butterfly chairs they used to be really popular they literally like kind of like the shape of a butterfly and the seat like slings okay we had like a leopard print like
Monica (:Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about.
Kelsie (:Okay, maybe I don't know leopard cheetah. I don't know. Anyways, maybe it wasn't any I don't know. You'll know once I explain what I did. She pinned it around me like pebbles from the Flintstones. From this fucking butterfly chair cover thing. And then yeah, put my hair up and put a dog bone in there I think and those pebbles. But I just think that was like the most creative little costume.
Nicole (:cute
Ashley (:that's cute.
Monica (:I love that.
How cute.
Nicole (:That's so cute.
Monica (:Yeah.
Ashley (:How old were you?
Kelsie (:I don't know, elementary school.
Ashley (:Yeah, that's cute.
Nicole (:I don't think I have a favorite.
Kelsie (:Ashley's like, if you were older, that's not cute, but since you were a child. I was a child.
Ashley (:I just needed to get the full image. If it was like last year, I'm like, eh, I'm just kidding.
Nicole (:Going?
Kelsie (:No. I'm far too tall for one of those to cover my body now.
Monica (:I was actually...
Ashley (:Yeah, slutty pebbles.
Monica (:True, Slutty, slutty pebbles.
Kelsie (:It would be like a loincloth. Yeah, yeah.
Ashley (:Ha ha ha!
Nicole (:loin cloth.
Monica (:Yes.
Ashley (:It's kind of fitting for the Flintstones. I don't know.
Nicole (:my god.
Kelsie (:Yeah.
Monica (:It's true, it's true. I was actually having...
Nicole (:I a forgoing childhood route, I would probably say that I was Dorothy like two years in a row because I kind of look like her. Yeah, and I was a lot when I was younger. Because it was my favorite and I like, that was my favorite movie and I went to like, not obviously not actual Wicked, but I went to go see like the Wizard of Oz on like off Broadway shows and stuff like that.
Monica (:You would make... I can see that you'd be a cute Dorothy.
Kelsie (:You would be a cute Dorothy,
Ashley (:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nicole (:We used to live in New York, so my aunt would take me to all kinds of like, Wizard of Oz plays and whatever when I was younger and it was so much fun. And so I was Dorothy a lot when I was younger because she was my favorite.
Ashley (:That's cute.
Monica (:love that so much. That is so cute. I was actually like when I was little, little, I had this like bumblebee costume and I've got pictures of it where like I was a cute little bumblebee. was like four. And I wore that like four years in a row because every year I wanted to be the bumblebee. That was when I was still cute Halloween and my dad and I were just having this conversation last week because for some reason I went through like this phase. It reminds me of like Mean Girls.
Nicole (:cute.
Yeah. Yeah.
Monica (:Katie shows up to the party and she's like, scary Halloween. Because for some reason, that was the approach that I went where it had to be the scariest stuff. And then eventually I hit this point in Junior High where I was like, wait a minute, ew, I don't wanna be scary, I wanna be cute.
Nicole (:And everybody else's slutty Halloween.
Ashley (:Hahaha
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Ashley (:Hahaha
Nicole (:I was gonna say I'm so shocked knowing you now I would have never ever ever ever guessed. Actually I'm worried about you for this episode so I would have never guessed that you would be into scary stuff.
Monica (:But it's like, it was literally like, I know. I know. I mean, it was one of those things where like, I just like took the assignment like very literally where it was like, it's Halloween, like we're gonna be scary. Right, exactly, does. Until, exactly, I took the assignment and then it was like, wait a minute, I don't wanna be like a zombie, I wanna be like a cute zombie or whatever, you know.
Kelsie (:No.
That tracks for you, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley (:That makes sense. Yeah. Now that that makes sense.
Nicole (:Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
Kelsie (:You know my problem is that like I so desperately crave being like really cute. I would love to be like a sexy anything for Halloween, but I'm built like a 12 year old boy and I always have been so there's nothing sexy about any costume. And it's really depressing because it's who I am inside. Okay well.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Nicole (:my god, hilarious.
Ashley (:Stop.
Monica (:I beg to differ, ma'am. I beg to differ.
Ashley (:You have the body of a supermodel. Like literally supermodel size.
Monica (:Yeah, legit, legit. Let's go back to San Antonio, please. Where like it was literally the day of the like big cowgirl event and Kelsey's like, I just I don't love my costume. Like I don't I don't really want to wear it. We're like, OK, let's go shopping. And do know where we went? Victoria's freaking secret. Kelsey gets.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:I didn't expect to find anything there. We just happened in there. We didn't go there because I'm like, Victoria's Secret will have what I need. We were walking past and there is this floral, like, Boussier thing and I'm like, hey, that matches the thing.
Monica (:No, no. It was...
It does it did it matched perfectly but Kelsey got it and she was rocking.
Nicole (:I've seen those pictures. She looked hot.
Kelsie (:Also,
Also, I would like to point out that at that point I had, I was breastfeeding a six month old. So my boobs were like triple Ds, okay? In high school, my boobs were like negative A's, okay? I wasn't filling out anything. I was not wearing a sexy Playboy bunny costume anywhere.
Nicole (:They were poppin'. They were poppin'.
remember ever doing that, to be honest. I did, I think I dressed up sexy one time. One Halloween.
Monica (:I think the first time I tried was freshman year of high school, my best friend at the time, and I decided to be cute little pirates. we definitely thought we looked better than we did. I'll just say that.
Ashley (:Yeah, I never, I didn't really either.
Kelsie (:Yeah
Nicole (:you
Monica (:man. The awkwardness. yeah.
Ashley (:I didn't say mine. Well, I don't know if I have one actually. Yeah, this is my favorite costume, this one today. Hello, happy Halloween. I like to be a cat also. Generally, I like to be a cat.
Nicole (:It's the triceratops you're currently wearing.
Kelsie (:you
Monica (:Love it.
Nicole (:For the listeners, hold on. For the listeners, Ashley is wearing a blanket that is a triceratops head on top of her head and it's the funniest thing. Please go,
Kelsie (:Nah.
Monica (:And there was no warning. We just logged on and there she was in all her glory.
Ashley (:The
There was no planning actually.
Kelsie (:Yeah, actually, we're gonna have to put this in the source pictures on Instagram for the world to see.
Monica (:It.
Nicole (:Yes,
Ashley (:No, there was really no planning. just wanted a blanket for this episode and I saw this one and I thought, perfect, that'll do.
Monica (:And that's the one you chose.
Nicole (:It just happened.
Kelsie (:That'll do.
Monica (:It is perfect though, so I'll give you that.
Ashley (:Yeah. Also all well, Kelsey and Nicole both got on to do this podcast and can see me didn't say a word about the triceratops blanket at all. We just, we just started general conversation and then Monica got out and she giggled because she's, she's a giggler.
Nicole (:my god.
It did not faze... It did not faze me.
Kelsie (:Honestly, it didn't faze me at all. I was like...
I'm like.
Nicole (:Zero. She, yeah, Monica giggled and then that was it and I was like, yeah, that didn't even phase me. just, it's so normal.
Ashley (:You
Kelsie (:I don't exc- I don't- nothing fazes me like you guys could come on here friggin- I don't even know and the most absurd thing ever and I'm like, hey, what's up? This isn't surprising. Let's move on.
Nicole (:Literally.
It for us. It really tracks.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Monica (:It really does.
Kelsie (:All right, what's your favorite scary movie? top three, okay.
Nicole (:No, I want to know top three favorite. what are your, but no, no, no, no, no, no. Wait, let me rephrase. I don't actually want to know what your favorite scary movies are. I want to know what the scariest movies you've ever seen are. What are the scariest movies you've ever seen? It changes everything because I have three. my God, you chicken shit. Sorry. Okay. That was aggressive. I'm so sorry. That was a terrible movie. Horrible. No, I.
Monica (:Top three? We have to come up with three?
Ashley (:my God, I don't know if I can pick one.
Kelsie (:That's hard, but I have too many.
Ashley (:I've got mine. Got it.
Kelsie (:okay. That changes everything.
Monica (:Ugh.
Ashley (:Hereditary.
Monica (:Well, what? Wait, wait, hang on. Hang on. we? Hang on. Wait. Yeah. Gruesome scary.
Ashley (:I fucking hate that movie.
Ugh, it was disgusting. No, horrible. Hated it.
Kelsie (:Are we talking just like any scary or like real scary or like spooky scary like ghost story? Yeah
Nicole (:Whatever you think is scary, what are the... Okay. That is a scary movie, yes. Yes, terrifying.
Ashley (:Any of the above, I guess.
Kelsie (:Okay, strangers.
Ashley (:Okay.
Monica (:I haven't seen that one. Mm. Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:Annabelle.
That's hard.
The scariest. That changes it. Because Insidious is my favorite movie, but it's not the scariest movie to me. I love Insidious. No.
Nicole (:that's a good one. But not the scariest. I have my top three. I have my top three.
Kelsie (:It's changed since I become a mom because things that didn't freak me out back then freaked me out now just as a parent. I don't know.
Monica (:Yeah
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:That's funny.
Kelsie (:I don't know, the third one's hard.
Nicole (:Okay, well at least we got two out of you.
Hereditary was such a crap movie. I'm sorry Ashley. You need to give me a better one. I'm so sorry.
Ashley (:No, that's that was like the last scary movie that I was like, no, I'm not watching scary movies anymore. Can't do it It was a mind fuck. It was gross. It just like it wasn't necessarily that it was like scary jump scares or like I Don't know. It was just like made me Uncomfortable. I was like told everyone don't watch that movie and saw yeah, I don't I don't like that shit either No me either. Yeah That was what I was gonna say, too
Nicole (:Really? That didn't? I could... I thought it was boring. I thought it was so boring.
Monica (:Sorry, real fast.
Nicole (:I just thought it was so boring. I mean, yes, it was uncomfortable, but.
Kelsie (:That's how I feel about SAW.
You saw it, I can't do torture, which is a problem for this episode,
Monica (:Ugh. Yeah.
Nicole (:those are actually, those are some of my favorites.
Kelsie (:I can't.
Ashley (:Don't like that.
Nicole (:Monica?
Monica (:Well, sorry, real fast. Side tangent, I just pulled up my phone to look at, just refresh my memory. And apparently if you go to Google and you type in scary movies, bats fly across your screen. Yeah.
Nicole (:Ooh, I love it. That's cool. Let's fact check this right now. Okay.
Ashley (:really? I wanna try. Does anything Halloweeny make it do that?
Monica (:Yeah, that was fun. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, I'm trying to think of because here's the thing, I don't watch a whole lot of scary movies because they stick with me. So I feel like the ones that I have in memory, I was a lot younger and they still bother me. Yes, the best. That was cool. So I would say
Nicole (:Let's see. We're at the Google.
Okay. I love the bats. That was cool. That was so cool. Okay.
Ashley (:my god, the bats. That was cool. Yeah.
Kelsie (:They're so cute.
Monica (:The exorcist for sure is always going to be one with me because I told that story already on here, right? Like, yeah.
Nicole (:Yes, that's top three for me not on here, but you told us us
Kelsie (:Yeah. No, I think you maybe did tell it on here. Yeah.
Monica (:I think I did. Recap real fast. Yeah, my dad took me out of school when I was in fifth grade to go watch it and it was an empty movie theater. So it was really fun. And yeah. And so when she came walking down the stairs, I screamed, ran across the movie theater. Still scary. But I don't like shit like that. I don't like demons and I don't like it. So that one's still up there. I also...
Nicole (:huh.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Yes, you did tell us on hearing this.
Ashley (:Mm.
Nicole (:Girl, feel you. I won't watch that one again.
Ashley (:Ahem.
Yeah.
Monica (:I feel like it is another one that's up there for me, like the original. But again, last time I saw it, I was like much, much younger. So like it just still creeps me out.
Nicole (:I hate that one.
Kelsie (:It doesn't scare me at all.
Mm-hmm. actually love the new it because the kids in it are so funny Like they their humor is hilarious like their little shits
Nicole (:Hey, that one.
Monica (:Are they?
Nicole (:Okay, I guess I have four top four scary movies because I forget, yeah, because I can't bring myself to watch that one as an adult because it scarred me as a child.
Kelsie (:She just added it.
Ashley (:Okay, all right.
Monica (:Yeah, cons. Yeah.
Ashley (:Fucking scary movie connoisseur over here, give us your four.
Nicole (:All right, my top four. Well, it is one of them, because that one scarred me for life when I was a child. I can't bring myself to watch the old one, and I can't bring myself to watch the new one. I've seen clips. I've seen clips of the new one, and it just still freaks me out so bad. I will not. Maybe. I'll keep you updated. I might. The Exorcist is one that I actually will not watch anymore, because it's terrifying to me now.
Monica (:Yeah.
Kelsie (:I actually wish you would watch the new one because you would like the kids in it. You should. It's okay.
Ashley (:Then watch it. Just watch it.
Monica (:For real.
Nicole (:The fourth kind and if you've never seen it, I do not recommend you see it because that scared the living daylights out of me and it's alien based movie. Y'all know how I feel about the fucking aliens and the fucking owls, okay? So don't watch that one. It's one of my favorite, it's like that one I will watch. Still top three scary for me and my probably top one.
As above, so below. I don't know if you guys have ever seen this movie. I also don't recommend seeing this movie. And the thing that makes it so scary is like, it doesn't seem like a scary movie at first. I didn't actually know it was a scary movie. Justin put it on one night. This was before we had children. And so we were in a living room and he puts it on. like, what's this? He's like, I don't know. So I was like, okay, cool. We sit down to watch it. I fell asleep within the first five minutes because it didn't seem like a scary movie.
Monica (:Mm-mm.
Nicole (:And I slept through the entire thing on the couch. And we wake up to go back, like to go to our actual bed. And he goes, dude, you missed a scary movie. And I was like, what do you mean I missed a scary movie? It didn't look scary at all.
Kelsie (:Have you watched the houses that October built or something like that? I think this one. It's on Netflix, I think, or it used to be. would like it.
Nicole (:No, I have not.
Okay, I'll check it out. But so the next night he puts it back on and I'm like five minutes in, I'm like dude I'm about to fall asleep, better get scary. He's like it doesn't, yeah. So I'm like, he's like you have to stay awake. I'm like okay. So I stay awake. That fucking movie proceeded to scare the absolute shit out of me. And then I had to watch it a third time because.
In the beginning, scary shit is actually happening that you don't freaking notice unless you've seen the rest of the movie. So it's like you don't notice it until you watch the whole thing and then you go back and you're watching, you're like, my God, I didn't even notice that. Okay, and so that movie was like a total like mind fuck and it's scary. scary, it's a scary movie. But a very well done movie, I will say, very good, is a movie I will watch again but still scared the shit out of me.
Ashley (:Mmm. Mmm.
Monica (:I will.
Yeah, I will say the movies that creep me out the most are the ones that kind of leave you with like a mindfuck. The ones that are just like gruesome, I don't like because I'm uncomfortable, but they're not necessarily scary. But the ones that like leave you really kind of like questioning reality, those ones.
Nicole (:like sneak up on you.
this.
Kelsie (:Saw actually is gruesome and but it's like, I can't watch it because I can't even fathom like my brain will go like, what if somebody did this to me and I cannot begin to fathom that level of torture and I like that is just no, I can't.
Nicole (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:I never even made it all the way through.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ashley (:Yes, it's gross.
Nicole (:It's actually so funny that you guys brought Saw up because I went on Peacock today to put on a show for my kids and every time I turn on the Peacock it always comes up to like the adult profile first and I have to go into like the kids profile. So I turned it on and Saw was like the first movie that was up on like that and I was like, they added Saw and I got very excited because I actually love those movies. And I can't wait. I'm going to probably watch it. Yes, I'm yes, I know. I know, I know, I know.
Ashley (:god.
because you're a freak.
Kelsie (:Well, Nicole will farewell for the rest of this episode, but I don't know about anybody else.
Ashley (:Yeah, you know what you'll love, Nicole? A story about a cult.
Nicole (:Yes, I'm very excited.
Yes, give it to me please. I'm worried about Monica.
Kelsie (:I'm very worried about Monica. I'm gonna give a warning right now and I'm gonna give one later. This is a very disturbing story. This is not just like, a silly little cult. It is very gruesome. I will warn you again before it gets gruesome. But it is I'm I'm begging you to take this seriously.
Monica (:See, okay.
Kelsie (:Okay, so are you ready to learn about a cult?
Nicole (:Yes! Yes!
Monica (:No. Actually, I'm very fascinated by cults, so I am very excited for that part. I'm just not so excited for the gruesome part. If you see my face turn green.
Ashley (:Ready?
Nicole (:Give it to me. I'm ready for everything.
Kelsie (:Okay. So, this actually started with some backstory of a guy named James Wickstrom. He was radical. He was a white supremacist. He thought Jews were evil. He had the distrust of authority. He wanted genocide of Jews, non-Europe Americans, race traitors, homosexuals, drug addicts.
Ashley (:Mmm.
Monica (:Starting off strong.
Kelsie (:He thought they all needed to be.
Ashley (:Wait, where's my red flag? Let me wave the red flags.
Nicole (:Race traders.
Kelsie (:Yeah. So he like toured the Midwest basically having rallies and just spreading his word. He did like Bible studies and stuff. And at the time there was a farm crisis. The economy for farmers was really bad. And I'm actually out of breath right now.
Monica (:collecting.
Wait, it's not just me. I'm so out of breath today. It's so weird. Wait, okay, wait. Did you say when did this start? When did this take place? Okay, okay.
Kelsie (:This was in the early 80s. Okay, so this his whole like reign of terror was in the early 80s. He's actually not the leader of this particular cult, but a bigger one. I mean, so anyways, Michael Ryan discovered James Wickstrom, and he obviously believed in his mission, basically. And they believed that the end of times were coming.
Nicole (:Peak cult time. Reign of terror.
lovely.
Kelsie (:the battle of Armageddon was coming, which battle of Armageddon in the Bible is that Jesus is going to come down and lead his forces to fight Satan's forces basically. But they believed that it was going to be a war of the races basically, not just that it was going to be Satan's forces, but like the white people were going to be Jesus's forces. Okay.
Nicole (:the white people. They didn't know, obviously, Jesus wasn't white, okay. They clearly did not pay attention during Bible study.
Monica (:Hate that.
Kelsie (:So.
Yeah, they missed that part apparently. The ironic part of all of this is that they thought Jews were evil like the Jewish parts of the Bible that they didn't like like they changed but some of the things that they did and like names they used were Jewish, were Hebrew, you know? Okay, so.
Nicole (:It's always that way. It's always that way. They don't even realize how hypocritical they're being. It's always hilarious after the fact.
Kelsie (:So Michael Ryan became like his understudy became James Wickstrom's understudy basically James taught him the arm test which is basically like you put your arms out and he would put one hand on the shoulder and one on the wrist and if your arm went down that was a no and if your arm stayed up that was a yes but obviously the person pushing the arm it controls whether the arm stays up or down
So they controlled the answers to the test basically. And he used that for years to come. Yes. So in comes Rick Stice and he had a pig farm and his wife had Hodgkin's disease. And so they went everywhere searching for faith healers. They were desperate. They wanted someone to heal her. And that's how they found Michael Ryan.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:I've heard of this before. I've heard of other people using this.
Kelsie (:and James Wickstrom and they would attend the Bible studies and eventually got very close with Michael Ryan. Michael Ryan took over Rick Stice's pig farm, an 80 acre pig farm. And they got all these men to come in and they believed all this. Okay, so Rick joined Ryan, Jim Haverkamp and two men in it.
Mennonites named John Andreas and James Tim and the arm test essentially at some point decided that Michael Ryan had the spirit of the Archangel Archangel I can't say it Archangel Michael hence his name being Michael and in the Bible Michael led the army of God against the Satan's forces so
Nicole (:Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:Anyways, Michael Ryan used the arm test to decide that he was basically the art. I can't say it. It's a sage. I can't say it. I can't say it. Yep. He was the angle. Okay. He was the angel, Michael. Okay. So,
Nicole (:The Archang, Joel Michael. He was the angle.
Wow, I would love to live in a state of delusion like that.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm. Yeah, and so
He convinced them that he could talk to Yahweh. They called him Yahweh, which is the Hebrew name for God. Remember, they don't like Jews. So but they use he was referred to Yahweh always not God, Yahweh. And so he convinced them that after a while that he could just hear Yahweh directly. He didn't really need the arm test. They did still use it from time to time, but essentially he could just tell them what Yahweh wanted.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Yeah, which is funny because they didn't like Jews. Yeah.
Okay, okay.
Ashley (:how convenient.
Monica (:Hmm, interesting.
Kelsie (:And he said he threatened their families if they didn't listen to what Yahweh told him to do. And he also told them that if they didn't listen, they wouldn't be protected against Satan.
Nicole (:you
Ashley (:Hmm.
Nicole (:boy.
Kelsie (:So they all moved on to Rick's farm. Okay. All those guys I named Jim Haverkamp, John, James, Tim, Rick, okay. And then Jim Haverkamp sisters, he had a sister named Cheryl, Lisa, and his mom Maxine. They would get together, smoke weed, rewrite Bible verses that they didn't agree with.
Nicole (:piece of work.
Kelsie (:And yeah.
Nicole (:Wait, but wait, didn't they not like drug users also?
Monica (:Solid.
Kelsie (:Yes, they said drug addicts should be killed, but yes, they smoked weed,
Nicole (:Okay, great. Okay, just checking.
Monica (:It's of the earth Nicole, it's fine.
Kelsie (:Not a long...
Nicole (:I'm just saying
Monica (:No, I agree. So much.
Kelsie (:Yeah, no, I know I laughed.
So Cheryl was actually married to a guy named Lester who was not in this group and they had five kids together and Michael Ryan told her that Yahweh said that she needed to marry him and leave her husband or her whole family would die in a horrific accident. So what did Cheryl do? She packed up her five kids and moved and married
Michael Ryan who already had a wife and two kids Ruth and two kids and so he took on two wives her five kids and his two kids
Nicole (:Why do they always take on two wives? Or five wives? Or all the wives? Why? lord help.
Kelsie (:my gosh, no, trust me though the wife's stuck up here Okay, so 1984 they're all moving on to this farm
And so in the end there's seven men, two women, a teen girl, that's Lisa, and 10 young children. And Maxine, the mom of the three sisters, would visit almost every two weeks until Michael Ryan said that she needed to marry him. So she married him and then he had three wives and he called himself the king and they were the
Ashley (:Mm.
Kelsie (:the queens. And then the teen girl Lisa, Rick married Lisa around that same time. She was 15. I don't know if she was I think she was still 15 when they got married. Most of this takes place within this year. So
Nicole (:Excuse me.
Ashley (:Gross.
Nicole (:I hate all of this already.
Kelsie (:And all of this time, the group grew to 25 members. I believe this is counting the children. And one day during an arms test, Michael Ryan decided that Rick needed to stop raising pigs, which is this whole farm is a pig farm. Okay. And he said he needed to stop raising pigs. They weren't kosher. It wasn't good. He needed to stop.
Nicole (:you
Ashley (:sure.
Monica (:I'm sorry, what?
Kelsie (:Yes. Yes. We hate the Jews, but we care about if the pigs are kosher. Okay. Yep.
Nicole (:We hate the Jews, but we gotta be kosher. I can't, okay.
Ashley (:Okay. Yahweh must have told him that.
Monica (:I was actually curious about the pigs in the beginning and not like, well maybe they kept them because they don't like Jews and pork is, you know, a filthy animal, but now, but now.
Nicole (:Yeah, we probably did tell him that.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Nah, bro.
Kelsie (:So this whole time, yeah, this whole time, these men are being sent to different farms in the area to steal farm equipment, to sell so that they can buy supplies and weapons for the Battle of Armageddon. Okay, so that's their whole mission is to go around, steal things to sell for supplies for this big battle for when the world ends. Yes, yes, that's their whole purpose in life.
Nicole (:Mm.
Ashley (:Very righteous.
Nicole (:Okay, so they are... Got it.
Monica (:Wow.
Nicole (:Okay, right, right. I almost forgot about the battle.
Ashley (:of course.
Monica (:Okay.
Ashley (:Makes sense. Yeah, me too. Me too.
Monica (:Sounds like a lot of work.
Kelsie (:is this battle of Armageddon that they're being raised up. they're serving Yahweh and they're preparing for this battle of Armageddon because they are going to be the leaders of this. Okay.
Ashley (:Hmm.
Nicole (:Great. The end is nigh. Got it.
It's like literally cult 101. Like this is always, this is standard.
Monica (:interesting.
Kelsie (:Okay, and I didn't say this in the beginning because I was so flustered by my children, but this, I grew up five miles from this town. This is in the city, the city, I say city, it's not a city. It is a very small town called rural Nebraska, population very small. I didn't actually look up the population, but it's like in the hundreds, like low hundreds. And,
Monica (:Ha ha!
Nicole (:You
Ashley (:Mm-hmm
Nicole (:Great.
Kelsie (:It's a rural area, farms everywhere where I grew up, just surrounded by farms, okay? And that is the setting of this, okay? And nobody talked about this when I was growing up. Like I knew there was a cult, but that is as far as it went. I didn't find anything out about it until I was an adult and I went digging. And I was like, nobody talks about this. This is crazy that this happened and everyone just pretended like it didn't. And I mean, to some degree I get why they've just swept it under the rug because
Nicole (:Mm-hmm.
Ashley (:Got it.
Sweep it under the rug.
Nicole (:Ugh, that's the worst.
Kelsie (:it's horrendous, but also it's like it's so horrendous how do you just ignore that it happened? Okay, moving on.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Yeah. Also though, to be fair, when you were growing up, this was like, were, this happened in the eighties, you didn't come along until the nineties. So maybe they were just over it. They were just like.
Kelsie (:Maybe, but like there are other things that have happened. like Skidmore is a town very close to mine. A man was murdered there. A woman's baby was cut out of her there. A kid went missing there. Like horrendous things have happened in that town. Nobody ever lets those stories die. Like they're constantly talked about. But this is like, hush, nobody speaks of it. It's very odd. Okay, so.
Ashley (:Ew.
Nicole (:But the cult? Very interesting.
Monica (:Interesting. I feel like that's kind of a thing about Colts though too is like, it's always kind of it always has that vibe.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:Well, and I also wonder if it's just like, it's a very religious area. Like it's the middle of nowhere, Missouri and Nebraska. And obviously people are religious and it's like, I mean, he used God for atrocious things. So maybe that plays into why they just don't talk about it. Okay. So Rick Stice was named high priest. So him and Lisa got their own trailer and then everyone else lived in this other trailer.
Monica (:Mmm.
Nicole (:Bible Belt.
Monica (:Mmm.
Ashley (:yeah.
Monica (:Maybe. Yeah.
Nicole (:I can't wait to find out what the atrocious things are. Please tell me more.
Kelsie (:and all of the men got military titles. every most of the men were five-star generals. Rick was a six-star general.
Ashley (:how nice. Good for him.
Kelsie (:And by the end of 1984, Rick's downfall began because he couldn't pay his mortgage because he wasn't allowed to raise pigs. So he had to sell his farm. Thankfully, thankfully, the Haverkamps could buy it, they bought it. But Yahweh was pissed. Yahweh was mad at Rick because he let the farm he went broke, know, couldn't pay couldn't pay for his farm.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Mm.
Of course he was. Yeah. Yep. He let the farm go into shambles.
Kelsie (:so Michael Ryan decided that Rick was having bad thoughts. So he demoted him. He took Lisa away. He took his wife away and then he married her. Yes. Then he married her himself. Yes. Yes. Then he married her himself.
Nicole (:His child bride. He stole the child bride. my god.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Monica (:No, the child, right? That's right.
Ashley (:Poor Lisa.
Monica (:Wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry. You said he married her for himself? Okay, okay. Just making sure I followed that. Okay.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:Yes, he took Lisa and married him married her himself. Yeah. And then Ryan also married another one of Maxine's daughters, Deborah. So now he's I think married to all three daughters and the mom at this point, I believe. huh. Plus Lisa plus Ruth. So
Nicole (:Hmm. Yep.
Ashley (:Ew.
Kelsie (:In December of 1984, he decides that Lisa is the queen of Israel and that they have both talked to Yahweh. He says that there is so much jealousy on the farm and if there aren't any changes of this jealousy, they're going to start losing their kids.
Ashley (:It's disgusting. It's so disgusting.
Monica (:Nope. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
Ashley (:Okay.
Hmm.
Nicole (:poor Lisa.
Ashley (:Mmm.
Kelsie (:And yeah, so it's pretty and he gives them a choice. He says you can stay or you can leave if you choose to stay you have to stay forever if you leave if you choose to stay and then you try to leave you will be hunted and killed. But if you leave you're gonna burn in hell.
Nicole (:Okay.
Ashley (:my god.
Nicole (:great! Sounds fun. I'll take my chances with the flames, thanks.
Ashley (:Yeah, for real.
Monica (:Okay.
Kelsie (:But the thing is that none of them left from what I can find. They all truly, truly believed that he could talk to Yahweh and that they were doing his will. Yes, this is a cult for a reason. They truly believe this. It's like crazy as some of it sounds, like this was real to them. So, beginning of 1985, doubts start coming about.
Nicole (:Of course, of course.
Yeah, Dynamic cult leader.
Ashley (:Well yeah, they're drinking the Kool-Aid.
Nicole (:Yeah, they drank Kool-Aid for sure.
yeah.
Kelsie (:James Tim wasn't sure about Yahweh anymore. He was doubting the arm test. And Rick, right along with them, was doubting it all too. so Michael Ryan got wind of this and he also decided, Ryan decided this, Michael Ryan decided that Luke, Rick Stice's five year old child also was having doubts. Luke did not express any doubts. Michael Ryan decided that this five year old was having doubts. So
Ashley (:you
Hmm.
Nicole (:my god.
Monica (:five-year-old.
Kelsie (:they all three were punished. This is gonna start going downhill. Okay? I don't- It's gonna start getting icky and it involves a child. Okay?
Ashley (:god.
Nicole (:Okay, great.
Monica (:no.
Ashley (:I hate that.
Nicole (:Yeah, it's hard when it involves children, but, yeah.
Ashley (:I didn't know it was gonna be kid related.
Monica (:Yeah, I know,
Kelsie (:Okay.
Yes.
Okay, everything is gonna start going downhill here. It's gonna start getting Bad, okay. So I want you to start guarding your heart
Ashley (:Ready.
Nicole (:Yes.
Kelsie (:If you're listening, you know, if you start to hear something you don't like, it's okay to stop, fast forward, whatever. It's gonna get bad, okay?
Nicole (:Brace yourself.
Yes, let's do it. Buckle in.
Kelsie (:Rick and James started having to do grunt work. They were on guard duty. They were doing farm chores. They were doing dishes. They were getting all the icky jobs. And at one point, I'm gonna say it one more time. This is going to get very graphic and I'm gonna stop giving warnings because it's all downhill from here. Okay, very, very graphic. Ryan threatened to cut off Rick's penis.
skin James alive and burn him alive They were forced to exercise for hours at a time Like just to keep going keep going keep going weren't allowed to Luke the five-year-old Was called a dog a mongrel dog shit Ryan would put cigarette ashes in his mouth He would spit on him he shot him in the arm
Ashley (:Mmm. my god.
no.
Nicole (:no.
Ashley (:Eww.
Nicole (:poor baby.
Ashley (:Hmm.
Monica (:my gosh.
Kelsie (:He tied a whip around his neck and lifted him off the ground and said, this is the mongrel. This is the seed of Luke would be forced to eat his meals off of the floor. And Rick was forced to paint 666 on Luke's back. He would get rolled around in the snow in only his underwear. And he would, they would drench him in water and then put him outside in the cold.
Ashley (:my god.
What the fuck?
Monica (:my gosh.
Ashley (:you
Nicole (:poor baby.
Monica (:Ugh.
Kelsie (:Yes, by this was all kind of started in January. So by March, this was also going on. And Michael Ryan said that they were still having bad thoughts. And
Nicole (:I mean yeah, I'd be having bad thoughts too. I'd be having thoughts of murder. One more.
Kelsie (:Okay. I know I said I wasn't going to give you more warnings, but this is there's going to be
torture, sexual assault.
Nicole (:Okay, great.
Kelsie (:any bad thing you can think of that could possibly be coming. once again, you just guard yourself. James was ordered to have to have anal in front of the group with Rick, and he was ordered to make it hurt. Afraid of the repercussions, he did do this.
Ashley (:Ew.
Nicole (:my god.
Monica (:Wow.
Nicole (:What?
Kelsie (:Rick was ordered to perform oral on his son and vice versa.
Ashley (:Hmm
Nicole (:no.
Kelsie (:Uh-huh. And on March 25th of 1985, Ryan got mad at Luke, the five-year-old. And I read different stories of this, but either way, he suffered a head injury and died. Though I read that he had his head slammed into cabinets, but I also read that his head was stomped on. I do not know which one actually occurred.
Nicole (:Poor baby. Poor baby.
Kelsie (:but he died and he was, Rick and James were forced to bury him. Yes.
Nicole (:no. Poor, poor, poor baby. That's awful. I hope this man dies.
Monica (:That's awful.
Kelsie (:So, yeah.
Ashley (:Dude, fuck those parents that stayed. Fuck you. How could you put your kids in a position like that and then stay there that whole time? I don't care how much of the Kool-Aid they were drinking.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm, but that's it
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Right. They had the chance. It's like.
Uhhh, I hope there's a mutiny.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:they were fully drinking it. I it's they never referenced the women and it's interesting to me that I don't know they never reference them like trying to escape they never reference like them doing anything and but they never reference them getting in trouble either which makes me think that they were very submissive I don't know it's very hard to imagine it's very hard to imagine so after that
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:They were guzzling it.
Monica (:Yeah.
Nicole (:Poor boy's mother.
Kelsie (:Rick just was in trouble all the time. He was forced to have sex with goats multiple times. And so shortly after Ryan and Lisa left for a honeymoon in Kansas City and while they were gone, Rick ran away. You would think. But so Ryan came back and he's pissed. He's very mad that Rick got away.
Nicole (:my gosh.
Monica (:Whoa.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:You would think. You're right. But OK. Well.
Kelsie (:So to keep James, which is the other slave at this point, to escaping, he chained him to the porch of one of the trailers. But unfortunately, Rick returned for fear of eternal damnation. And so he was chained with James. On April 4th,
Ashley (:my god. Fucking idiot.
Nicole (:Rick.
Kelsie (:Ryan ordered one of the guys to take Rick into town to cash his Social Security check and that time Rick escaped and he went into hiding and he did not return. But he did by leaving he left two other children. He left two other children. Yeah. Unfortunately, James was punished for Rick's actions. So they would go out and like
Nicole (:good. OK, good.
Ashley (:Yeah, he left his family.
Nicole (:Yeah, he left his family. Yep.
Okay.
Kelsie (:They were encouraged to like smoke weed and they shot guns and Ryan's son who is like a teenager but like an older teenager at this point. young adult maybe. Shot James in the face but James didn't die. But he was not allowed to get care from a doctor either. yeah. And he was on a chain 24 seven.
Ashley (:God. my God.
Kelsie (:And the only thing he was allowed to eat was the birds that they shot, the small birds that they shot with their guns. He had lost weight. He looked old and skinny and he was just very unwell. And he was forced to have sex with a goat in front of everybody as punishment for just existing basically. Yes, the goat sex is a lot.
Nicole (:That's diabolical.
Great.
Okay, this goat sex thing is so weird. It's just weird. It's just a weird power play.
Monica (:That one's a weird one. I mean, all of it is weird.
Kelsie (:Yeah So they were cooking a turkey on April 17th and the meat was very very dry and Michael Ryan was very angry and he decided that James poisoned the turkey so he made James Mm-hmm. So he made James Yeah, yeah, he made James eat the whole thing and It didn't make him sick and that made Ryan even more mad That he did not get sick by the turkey that he poisoned
Nicole (:Yes, from his chains. He managed to poison the- okay.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Nicole (:No.
Kelsie (:so he had to have sex with the goat again. That was his punishment for not getting sick by his fake poisoned turkey. And then he was taken to the barn and chained up in the barn where the pigs used to be. And the men took turns beating him.
Ashley (:my god.
Kelsie (:So the next morning, one of the men was ordered to take a bowl of granola out for him to eat for breakfast, which honestly seems pretty generous considering everything. And while he was taking him breakfast, he told the other men that it would please Yahweh if James could survive four to five days of torture.
Nicole (:Yeah, I was gonna say wow granola.
Ashley (:my god.
Nicole (:man, these people are so crazy.
Kelsie (:And it's gonna it's it's it's bad right now. Okay, so once again, this is bad
James was then they all went out there that afternoon and they used the handle of a shovel to rape James taking turns raping James. He was tied. He was squirming and that made Michael Ryan mad. So he was tied with bail wire so that he would hold still as he's like laid over this crate thing.
Ashley (:Ugh.
Nicole (:I had a feeling that's where that was going.
Ugh. Ouch.
Kelsie (:they were not happy. Yahweh was not happy with this punishment. it wasn't good enough. Or in my opinion, it wasn't bad enough. they, Yahweh decided they needed to go eight to 10 inches.
Nicole (:Right.
no!
Ashley (:my god.
Kelsie (:with the handle. They marked the handle to be sure that they were each going deep enough. He started screaming and he got kicked in the head and his mouth was taped shut.
Ashley (:Ew.
Nicole (:no...
my god.
Kelsie (:And in all of this, he then made him sign his car over to Tim Haverkamp because it was Tim Haverkamp's birthday and he decided that his car was a birthday present. James's car, he had to sign it over in this torture in the middle of this. And then he was raped again with the handle, this time two feet.
Nicole (:my god.
below.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Ashley (:Does that- did that kill him? I don't understand.
Kelsie (:No.
Nicole (:I was going to say, how did he survive that? Because that is all up in your intestines. Yeah, Monica, how are you? She's barely with us.
Ashley (:is repulsive. Monica, are you still with us? She's barely with us. I'm barely with us.
Kelsie (:I know. Okay. I know.
Monica (:This is horrific
Nicole (:That's awful.
Kelsie (:I want to say that I gave you multiple warnings and throughout the week I was warning them. I'm like, guys, are you sure this is really bad?
Monica (:She's like, told you. my gosh.
Kelsie (:Okay, so, Yahweh decided that wasn't enough. That they needed to go wider. So then they used a three inch pickaxe.
Ashley (:No, stop. Stop.
Nicole (:Wider.
my god.
Kelsie (:Mm.
But that wasn't enough. They were then ordered to whip him 15 times each. He was hung by an auger, which kind of looks like a big drill bit, hung by his wrists, and he was whipped 15 times by each of them.
Nicole (:Of course, it's never enough. Yeah, yeah.
Kelsie (:And he begged at this point he was begging. He was begging Yahweh. I'm so sorry. Please, please make it stop. I'm sorry. And Michael Ryan said Yahweh has given up on you. Don't bother. Don't bother. He's given up on you. So
Nicole (:Lord Ruler.
No, he did not
I swear, I swear to Yahweh if someone doesn't kill that man, if that man is still breathing today, I'm gonna be very upset.
Monica (:I'm just like so curious how they have all the accounts of this.
Kelsie (:He was laid on a sleeping bag for the night. And then the next morning they came back because it was not enough. He was whipped again, 15 by each man. And then Michael, I think tied his hand down to a crate or something and shot one of his fingertips off. The men were crying.
Nicole (:you
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:they wanted to stop but they were too afraid and then they each had to take turns shooting his fingers off one by one.
Nicole (:No, no, no, no. They all had a loaded gun in their hands and nobody turned it on this Michael Ryan guy because, are you kidding me? No, no. Nope. How can, okay, sorry. I'm gonna keep my commentary to myself and let you finish.
Kelsie (:Because they were too afraid.
Mm hmm. And then at that point, Yahweh decided, aka Michael Ryan, decided that James needed to be dead by the afternoon. Jim Andres, I can't remember his first name, went to find a burial spot. And then the other ones were sent to break his arms and his legs, basically.
He kicked, Michael Ryan kicked and broke one of his arms and then he told him that he would skin him alive and he did. He took a razor blade and pliers and peeled strips of skin off of his body.
Ashley (:No.
Nicole (:He did it.
we're losing Monica. We're losing Monica. This is where Monica's going to tap out. Sorry, Monica.
Kelsie (:This is about the part where I thought we were gonna lose Monica.
Ashley (:my god.
Nicole (:Sorry, Monica. my god. That is.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:That's disgusting and so horrible.
Kelsie (:and then they took a two by four and broke both of his legs.
Nicole (:horrible.
Huh!
Ashley (:my god, just kill him already, this is enough.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm. And then finally...
Nicole (:Mm-mm, they got a torture room apparently.
Kelsie (:Michael Ryan stomped on his chest until he died.
Ashley (:Wow, what a fucking psychopath.
Nicole (:dumped on his chest?
Kelsie (:stomped on his chest until it killed him. And then they were ordered to go out and bury him, but Michael Ryan ordered that Timothy shoot him in the head before they bury him.
Monica (:Just in case. Just in case.
Nicole (:Just take extra measures, extra precautions. Because if he wasn't dead, he would get out of there somehow, you know, with all his broken bones and whatnot. my god, this guy's frickin' mess.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm. Yep.
Monica (:my gosh, this guy's literally psycho.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:my gosh, it's disgusting.
Kelsie (:On June 25th of 1985, Jim and John were arrested for stealing farm equipment. And as soon as they were in custody, they started talking. Yes, they started talking. And once Rick Stice got word that they were in custody, he then went to the police and told them everything he knew.
Monica (:Mmm.
Nicole (:Thank the Yahweh, honestly, for real.
I was just going to ask, what about Rick? Did he come forward? Thank goodness. OK, good. Good job, Rick.
Kelsie (:He He stayed in hiding until he knew they were talking and then he... Yeah. So that is basically where the cult ended because they were all arrested. Every single member of the group was arrested. And it was interesting because within two days they found all the bodies and the auto... Luke and James, I think were the only two.
Ashley (:Rick re-enters the chat.
Monica (:because he had ran away. Yeah. Okay.
Nicole (:Yeah. Good job, Rick.
Monica (:Wait, how many bodies?
Okay. Okay. It was just the two.
Kelsie (:I said all the bodies, I think it was just those two. Luke's or not Luke's, James's autopsy didn't match what they had been told because his penis and testicles were gone upon the autopsy. Michael Ryan tried to say that was just decomposition, but it had, yeah, I mean.
Nicole (:He wasn't buried that long, was he?
Ashley (:Mm.
Well, they could probably tell the difference.
Kelsie (:It's they said they looked cut off. That was what the autopsy said.
Monica (:Yeah.
Nicole (:Yeah, I mean, forensic would be able to tell that and like immediately whether it was removed or decom, but okay.
Ashley (:Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsie (:Yeah. Yeah. They found 150,000 rounds of ammo.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Mmm. Because they were preparing for the battle.
Monica (:Wow.
Kelsie (:And yeah, most of them received second degree murder sentences. The men that were like involved in the. My understanding is Rick did not get in. I don't think Rick got. mean, obviously he didn't take place in the murder. So.
Ashley (:for the war.
Nicole (:as they should.
Monica (:Which honestly...
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Right, yeah. He was a victim, for sure.
Monica (:Yeah, yeah, which honestly, I feel like getting a second degree murder charge and going to prison for the rest of your life is probably generous compared to the life that they were living.
Kelsie (:I do believe that one of them or both, not Michael Ryan, he's a different subject, we'll talk about him in a minute, but I do believe at least one of them, if not both of, a couple of them are out, I think. They served and they're out on parole.
Nicole (:Yeah.
Yes.
And to be honest, that's fair, I think. They weren't acting of their own will. They honestly were brainwashed. It's, yeah, it's very nuanced there. So, you know, they were victims too. I mean, it's just, sad.
Kelsie (:Yeah, I think it's, yeah. I think, yeah.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Yeah, especially the ones raised in it.
Yeah.
Kelsie (:Yes, Michael Ryan, however, was sentenced to death row.
Nicole (:this man. Thank God.
Kelsie (:But he never received that punishment because he died in 2015 at 66 years old from cancer. Which is not fair.
Nicole (:I was- my god, I was gonna say if you fucking say natural causes, I'm gonna lose it. You're telling me.
Ashley (:Hmm.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm. I don't love the death penalty. I think it's wrong a lot of the time and it's a faulted system, but this man deserved his punishment and I'm very mad that he got out of it.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Nicole (:He deserved it quickly. That's the problem, in my opinion. This man, I'm fine in this case with the death penalty, but you let him live? Yeah, you let him live to 66 years old, old enough to where he got cancer and died of a natural, are you? I am pissed. I am.
Ashley (:Yeah, they let him get cancer and die from it before they killed him. Execution style.
Where's all the kids?
Kelsie (:I don't know. It's interesting because I...
I probably know some of these families and I just don't know that I know them, you Because I know some of the last names. know...
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:Hmm.
Kelsie (:people that are probably related, but I don't know. I don't know specifics because like I said, no one ever talks about it and it's probably a good thing. I'm sure they don't want people to know their ties to it, yeah. But yeah, no. I don't know where the kids are, but I hope that they're of escaping this.
Monica (:might be why.
Nicole (:Yeah, yeah, they don't want to. Yeah.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Nicole (:So they never say anything about the wives and like, you know what I mean?
Monica (:It's horrific.
Kelsie (:May I think there's a book on it. I obviously haven't read the book. So maybe it goes into more details about the wives and like, whether whether they ever tried to like, but nothing I can find in anything that I've read ever mentions the wife's trying to do anything in the form of protection.
Nicole (:Yeah.
Insane. Could not be me.
Ashley (:It's very hard for me to feel any kind of sympathy for any of the adults that were involved. Even though you guys like said, you know, they're victims too. It's very hard for me to sympathize. Why are they there in the first place? How did that man with that much hate in him come to you and tell you of his plans and now you followed him and you stuck with him that whole time? Like.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:Well, I mean, in the beginning, I mean, obviously, we know that racists are alive and well, there are plenty of them, they don't believe that that's a wrong thing. Yeah, no, I know. Yes, no, I agree. I agree. But, but like also
Nicole (:Yeah.
Monica (:Yeah.
Ashley (:Well, that's where my any kind of sympathy I would have for them stops. I mean.
Monica (:Yeah.
Yeah.
Nicole (:Yeah, but I can understand also.
Monica (:but they're already in a different mindset.
Kelsie (:And like Rick, they were just searching for someone to heal his wife. Like they went there out of a place of desperation, you know? And then, you know, people just, it's just too easy to drink the Kool-Aid as we've said. Like I can't, I can't imagine it, but also it happens a lot. Like, so I don't.
Nicole (:Yeah, poor Rick.
Monica (:that's right.
Ashley (:Hmm.
Yeah.
Monica (:Well, and with things like that, it's usually, it's like, it's a slow burn to get there because...
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I mean I summed this up what you know what took place over a few years and like building their trust probably you know before it really spiraled
Nicole (:Yeah.
Monica (:Yeah.
Nicole (:Mm hmm. He had to have, he had to have built up so much of their trust that they just, obviously at one point they were afraid and they were doing stuff out of fear, but they had to have trusted him enough to get to that point. So it's, there's a lot of nuance, I think, and it's interesting.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Well, not only that,
Yeah.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:And he had to have had control over the group as a whole to be able to make one person feel afraid to stand up and to leave and to do anything.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Yeah, that is insane. That is so crazy.
Kelsie (:Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I mean, at some point, you know, when you're watching your peers being forced to do unthinkable acts, you're like, well, I don't want that to be me. So I'm going to do what I'm told, you know.
Monica (:Ugh, it's so disgusting.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nicole (:Right, yeah. Yeah, they're afraid of everybody. Their whole life is fear, and that's all they know. Yeah, that's so terrible. No, of course it isn't. That's just so wild. I'm a little... It could never be me. I could never sit back and watch, especially like Luke, and I don't remember who Luke's mother was, but...
Ashley (:Yeah, they're afraid of Yahweh, they're afraid of him, they're afraid of everything.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:That literally made me nauseous.
Kelsie (:Yeah.
I don't, I didn't see that. I don't know if it was... I assume it was Lisa. I don't know. No, that can't be, no, it can't be Lisa. It's gotta be the wife, the kid of the wife that had Hodgkin's disease. I didn't see that she passed away. I think she did maybe, yeah. I think it had to be, because there was not enough time span for it to have been anybody but her, so.
Nicole (:Okay. Because she was only 15.
Okay, so Rick's original wife.
Yeah. OK. OK.
Kelsie (:I it was hers, because he had two older children that were older than that too. she wasn't even there. I think she had passed away.
Nicole (:So I'm curious if she was, okay, I was gonna say if she was alive during this part, I could not imagine being her, because if that was me.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:I think that's why maybe he, those, that him, those kids and particularly him was a target because their mom wasn't there. You know, he wasn't married to any of their, his mom, you know.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Ashley (:Hmm.
Nicole (:Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So there was nobody else to like.
Monica (:Mm hmm. Well, and if she died, I mean, I can see with all this easily spinning out of like, well, she died because she wasn't loyal enough. And so that's why you're like the spawn of Satan or whatever. It's so horrible.
Nicole (:Yeah, she could have, he could have easily used that. He could have easily used their own mothers. Yep. With psychopaths. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Ashley (:Then Rick left behind two kids with... with no one.
Monica (:Which that's wild to me too, because it's like if you left your kids behind and you knew it was bad enough that you needed to run away and get out, like, why would you not have gone to the police then and saved them? Yeah.
Nicole (:You should've s- why didn't you talk immediately? Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, that's insane. Yeah. That could literally never be me.
Ashley (:Well, yeah, it's fucking stupid. He let one get murdered already, so... There's no, there's no reasoning that makes sense, I don't think.
Kelsie (:Yeah.
Yeah.
Monica (:my gosh, that is horrendous.
Nicole (:I feel for those people honestly that they couldn't discern what was right and what was wrong enough to get out of that situation. That's what I feel bad for mostly. Obviously before all the horrible things that happened to them. Because it is still horrible. Even if they chose to drink the Kool-Aid, they should not have endured any of that. That's just horrible. Right. Right.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Kelsie (:something about Colts.
Monica (:Yeah.
Nicole (:You know, to not see the warning signs, that's what makes me, and this is why I actually enjoy this type of content and why I listen to it so much, because I'm like, I'm gonna be prepared. I'll be prepared for anything. Honestly, you ain't catching me nowhere. I'm paranoid because of all the true crime I listen to that nobody's getting me on anything.
Kelsie (:I don't think I mean.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
Monica (:Yeah
That's the thing, it's like...
Ashley (:You
Monica (:It's like, but that's the thing though, it's like, it's such subtle psychological abuse, because then it, when you start to question it, you don't question them, you question yourself.
Nicole (:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kelsie (:Mm-hmm.
Ashley (:Mm-hmm.
You must be mentally strong, people.
Nicole (:Man, cults are like, seriously, mental fortitude. Build up those walls. Don't let anybody in.
Monica (:Ugh, it's horrible. For real. I-
Ashley (:Yes, if you take anything from this episode.
Monica (:Seriously, mean like wow, what an episode for Halloween, but also we were talking about scary movies and I specifically said, I was like, I don't like this stuff where it's like, George R. St. Croose, I'm in this, no I know, I know, but like this would be the kind of thing made into a movie that I'd be like, nope, no thank you.
Nicole (:my gosh.
Kelsie (:I told you I said you're not gonna like this episode.
Nicole (:Surprised it hasn't been.
Kelsie (:I'm surprised. There is a, I know that like Apple TV has like deadly cults something and I know they covered it, but I don't know of any like movie. Yeah.
Monica (:Yeah.
Nicole (:Ooh, I'm gonna watch that, maybe.
Monica (:Hmm interesting. Yeah that is that is gruesome and terrible and
Ashley (:freaks.
Nicole (:I just, it really gets me when there's kids involved, honestly, because like Ashley was saying, like adults can do whatever you want. Like, yeah, of course it's horrible things happen to you, but you made your choices. Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley (:Yeah, me too.
Monica (:Yeah.
Yeah, it's the kids that break my heart too.
Kelsie (:That's what I told- I know. I discussed this with Trevor before. was like, I- I can- It's all terrible, but like the kid part, like I'm like, do I- do I cut it out? Do I feel like you can't leave it out. It's like part of the atrocities of what he did. But it's like, I didn't know- I didn't know how to water it down and- or like it's all or nothing. It's-
Ashley (:Now that there was a kid, yeah, now I'm mad. Now I'm mad at all of them.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Exclude it. Yeah.
Ashley (:You can't leave it out.
Nicole (:You can't. No, that's the worst part of it. Yeah. Yeah. I would say it's the worst part of it. I mean, yeah. Yeah.
Monica (:Mm-hmm.
Did they find anything during a psychological evaluation? Was he actually delusional? Did they come to any decision about that? Or was it that he was mentally sane and made these decisions?
Kelsie (:I think he was mentally sane and made this decision. I don't remember seeing anything about his... Yeah.
Ashley (:I don't think they would have put him on the death- He couldn't have got the death penalty if they decided he was not mentally competent,
Monica (:Yeah.
Kelsie (:Yeah.
Nicole (:Yeah.
Monica (:Yeah. Interesting.
Kelsie (:he finds out it's locked.
Ashley (:Well, if our listeners made it through this episode, thank you. Congratulations. And also, we're sorry.
Nicole (:you
Thank you. Yes. We are we apologize. Don't give up on us now.
Monica (:Ugggghhhh... Yeah.
Kelsie (:I am very sorry. After I got back and I dove back into the research, because it had been a while since I had listened and learned about it, I was like, guys, I don't know actually if we should do this. And they were like, we're going to do it. We're going to do it. It's fine. We can handle it. And I'm like, no, I'm telling you, it's really bad. Are you sure? And they were like, yeah.
Ashley (:Yeah, this is why no one in the town talks about it. It's fucking sick.
Nicole (:you
Monica (:This is, yeah, this is.
Nicole (:That was my bad.
Monica (:Yeah, no, that is horrific and horrifying. And this isn't our normal content, but for a Halloween episode. Yep, we had to go there. Seriously.
Nicole (:We had to go, we had to dig out the worst of the worst for the Halloween episode, but next week, I think we should maybe just talk about love is blind.
Ashley (:Well.
We'll lighten it up next week. We'll lighten it up next week.
Kelsie (:Well, for something, we'll go back to our drama and gossip and girly girl, girl chat, group chat shenanigans, okay? I'm sorry that I graced you with this terrible story.
Monica (:I'm gonna light it up.
Nicole (:Regularly scheduled drama. Dramatic shit.
Ashley (:Yeah.
Monica (:The Petty Patty Wagon.
Ashley (:Yeah, yeah.
Nicole (:you
Ashley (:We're all sorry.
Nicole (:Two weeks in a row. So sorry.
Monica (:But seriously, seriously, but I mean, I think the interesting one about this though is just that it was close to you. It's not just like some random story. It's like, yeah.
Nicole (:Yeah, that's really the kicker is that like Kelsey actually grew up with this basically in her backyard. That's insane.
Ashley (:Yeah, that's fucking crazy.
Monica (:Seriously, I know. And on that note, that is it for our Halloween episode because turns out the spookiest things are not ghosts or robins. It's things right in your backyard hiding in plain sight.
Ashley (:wild.
Nicole (:Mm-mm.
Mm.
Ashley (:Exactly. Evil doesn't always wear masks, sometimes it's just people doing unthinkable things. So fuck Michael Ryan and happy Halloween, right?
Kelsie (:If today's story gave you chills, welcome to the club. I'm sorry you're here, honestly. We're here to remind you that sometimes the scariest monsters are real.
Ashley (:Mm.
Nicole (:So keep your doors locked and your wits about you and follow a little bit bothered for more tales that might just keep you up at night or maybe not. Until next time, stay safe out there. Bye, happy Halloween.
Monica (:Happy Halloween! Bye!
Ashley (:Happy Halloween!
Kelsie (:Bye!
Nicole (:you
